3 Doves Podcast
3 Doves Podcast
Ep 11 - Trauma to Truth: Jesus Martínez - Cheek Turners
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In this episode of the 3 Doves Podcast, Jesus Martinez shares how he was born in Venezuela, grew up poor in Southwest Florida, and fell into drugs, violence, and gang involvement after childhood sexual abuse and trauma at home. Searching for peace through art, the library, philosophy, yoga, and Buddhism, he later had a vision at 20 that led him to pursue Jesus, examine the historical reliability of the Bible, and wrestle with division in the modern church versus true discipleship. Jesus describes an immediate transformation—leaving drugs, pursuing holiness, and calling his family to faith—eventually witnessing widespread conversion in his family and even leading his abuser to Christ, while acknowledging ongoing healing. He emphasizes that God’s call is not “mission” but daily obedience, practiced through listening, Sabbath, and surrender.
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Welcome everybody to the Three Doves Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Pulowski. And today, from gangs and brokenness to radical transformation, Jesus Martinez shares the moment everything changed and what it really means to follow Jesus. I'm sitting here with Jesus Martinez. Jesus, welcome to the Three Doves Podcast. Awesome. Thanks for having me. You're very welcome, and appreciate you coming all the way over from Fort Myers, right? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, man. So close. Jesus, tell me a little bit about uh where you're born and uh where you grew up.
SPEAKER_01Um born in Venezuela. Came here in '89. Uh actually came down to uh East Naples between Naples and Everglades City, grew up down there and um grew up fishing and just enjoying Southwest Florida before it became what it's become.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's gotten big over the years. It's really grown quite a bit. Tell me about your childhood though, growing up in Venezuela. What was that like?
SPEAKER_01Well, I came here when I was uh elementary age, so didn't really I wouldn't say I grew up there. I I would say I grew up here, but culturally, you know, that's like my home, super Venezuelan home, super Latin home. Um we came here. My family was very poor. Um, so my parents worked two jobs each of them, and uh you know, got the free breakfast, free lunch at school, and uh school school days are better than the summer days and summertime were like we just got in me and my brother got in a lot of trouble always. You did, huh? Oh yeah. What kind of trouble were you guys into? Bad trouble. Uh I mean I'd say everything was fun and play until like 11 or 12, but yeah, 12 years old started getting into um just drugs, selling drugs, doing drugs, and just the wrong, wrong trouble, man.
SPEAKER_02Wrong trouble. Wrong crowd. Obviously, what you do today is polar opposite of who you were then. Yeah. So where did this story begin of transformation in your life from getting involved in in the uh drug?
SPEAKER_01I think um I think it began way before I was born for I for sure. I think like uh I've been learning who the Lord created me to be for the last, I don't know, 30 years or something. Um so my parents named me after Jesus uh because my my mother had an abortion before me. And so she made a promise that she was ever in uh in the same situation. They were like really, really poor in Venezuela, and they could not afford to have a child. Um so their best move was to have an abortion, is what their mindset was. And so my mom was pregnant. Uh, she knew uh immediately, like as soon as she realized she was pregnant, she's like, it was immediate. Her her thoughts and her prayer of if she was ever in that situation again, um, that she would um follow through with having the child. Well, I was that child, and so she named me after Jesus as like a as a I don't know, I guess like a in memory of that promise, but my my parents didn't know God at all. Wow. And so we weren't raised to read the Bible or go to church or anything like that. Culturally, as Latin, this like God is in our culture at some level, you know. I was baptized into the Catholic Church as a child. We were all baptized into the church, but never went to church. And so the concept is there, but no, didn't know anything about it. When uh I was sexually abused and I was a kid, and I think that process really began the process of like oh what's well what the heck is the point of life? You know, so my father's best friend sexually abused me for like a year. Um and like you know, that process of being abused as a kid, so many things happen in well for me, many things happen in my mind. And uh to even be silent and to allow it to continue.
SPEAKER_02Uh that had to be very traumatic. I mean Oh yeah. I mean life is traumatic.
SPEAKER_01I know you're on the other side of it, but during that time, you know, as a as a I don't think I understood what was taking place, you know, in the heart or in the mind or in the future of what was going to unravel. Um I was frozen, is what I was, you know. And so um started doing drugs pretty quickly after that, around 12. And um, but I had a had something I never had. So I remember watching my father as a kid. Man, mom, dad, if you're hearing this, I honor you, but your story is my story. So watching my father hit my mom when I was a kid, it's the first time I ever um I ever really had hatred for my father. And uh so there's like this lack of trust from like five years old. That makes sense. And then uh my father was an alcoholic at the time too. And like, man, when he came home in a rage, it was wild. It'd be insane. So by the so this this person who my parents allowed into our lives was a trustable adult in my eyes. And so here's a male figure who like I see him as a protector even against like even against my own father. That's the dude who sexually abused me. And so at that point, it's like, F it, I need nobody.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I trust nobody. And what's the point of living? And that was so hatred became murderous in my heart. And so I premeditated murdering this dude many times.
SPEAKER_02But a lot of people listening to this would say you're justified being angry and and want to murder, you know, have that murderous feeling inside you. Think about that.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I don't know anyone who's justified. And so um justice is human justice is not God's justice. It's we're just it's we can justify whatever we choose. That's good, true. Yeah right. And so um so the beginning, right? You asked me the question, how the heck did this happen? Yeah. Um the drugs weren't doing it, they weren't healing me. You know? Um the way the Lord made me, I'm an artist. And so poetry was the natural response to the things that were happening to me. So my journaling was poetry, and that was natural. Just start writing, drawing, painting, uh, sculpting. I had access to art, which is I'm grateful for. My grandmother was an artist, and so like she had an art studio in the house. So I had access, I was surrounded by it. In my pursuit, because my parents worked two jobs, we had a lot of free time. Well, one of the only places that I could go on my bike that like was close to my house was the library. And so in the library, I found drawing books. There you go. In the library, I found philosophy books. In the library, I found religious books. In the library, I learned. And so I'd go to the library and learn. In the process of learning, I learned about yoga. Here I am, you know, 13, 14 years old, yoga, meditation, Buddhism. Yeah. Um, and the pursuit was peace, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Hey, three doves podcast listeners. My name is Justin Hanakin, and I've been a guest on episodes three and four of this podcast. I'm here to share with you today about a tangible way that we can live out our honest faith through real stories to see lives transformed. I'm part of a group called the Million Movement, and we have a goal to see one million children sponsored by the year 2050. I had the opportunity to travel to Ethiopia in 2009 to meet my sponsor child with Food for the Hungry, and my life has never been the same since. Could you take a minute and visit www.themillionmovement.com to read more about our vision? And then if you're able to sponsor a child, you'll find a way to do so right at that link. Shoot me a DM on Instagram at the.million.movement, because I want to send you a free gift to help you on your sponsorship journey. Again, that's www.themillionmovement.com, and now back to this week's episode.
SPEAKER_01Pursuing like how do I how do I get rid of this thing that wants me to murder this dude, take my own life, and drown, drown out all of the the pictures. Uh I I used to be a very friendly kid. Like I used to like like hugs and all those things, but this at this age, you couldn't touch me without me wanting to hurt you. Sure, yeah, it makes sense. Totally makes sense. It created a very hard human being. The nature of the community my parents put me in because of their poverty was one that had a lack of education, but also one that had gangs in it. A lot of immigrants. Which is fine. I mean, and what cut what what levels of gangs, I don't know, but there was definitely guns, violence, yeah, uh drugs. Were you involved in a gang at that time? Or did you join in to anything? My brother was, he's uh you know, a little older than me. And um how old were you during this time? 12 to 21.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh by the time I was yeah, I moved out at 17. Yeah. And by the time I was uh 18, I was uh working with a the um an Asian gang.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um selling drugs for them and um getting involved in stuff I shouldn't have gotten involved in. Sure. Um by the time I'm 20 years old, I end up having a vision um about about getting to know who Jesus was. So I had pursued an incredible amount of things, and none of them had worked, but at 20 I had a vision of getting to know who Jesus was.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it was immediate. It was like I knew I need to pursue what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02What what brought about that moment for you? What drugs. Drugs did so. The drugs brought you into a moment of saying, I need Jesus?
SPEAKER_01I mean, possibly, you know, and all of my research of like why is humanity here? I was, you know, I'm still interested in philosophy.
SPEAKER_02So you're looking for answers, you're looking for peace. You're trying to find the answers and the peace that oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01What's the point of life? What like why do some people go hungry? Why some people get abused? Why is my father, you know, why was he an alcoholic? Why did he beat my mom? Why'd you have kids to begin with? Why you travel 30 miles west into Naples? Why do they have $20 million houses and we're living in a $70,000 house? Or none of this stuff made sense to me, you know? And so why am I going to school with the same shoes from last year and these kids have a different pair of shoes every day? Like, what? You know, I'm a thinker. Nothing can satisfy that. And so um, in pursuit of who is Jesus, Jesus blew my mind. How so? Tell me how. Um, one, the historical evidence that points to the dude, like who he is, what he said, the reliability of the historical of the text. Like I'm I'm sitting here at you know, 20 years old, Jesus, okay, like I by the time I'm 20, I have this vision. I'm like, okay, I believe in God, right? But I wouldn't call him God. It was like the universe, uh, the creator, uh, the energy, the oneness, you know. But he had no name and he was not personal, right? And so and yet, you know, I'm trying to figure out, okay, the universe, the creator, you created me. I know enough not to take my life. I know enough not to kill the guy who did this to me. I know enough at this point that hatred does nothing. I learned a lot through Buddhism. Right? So, but it also taught me a lot of detachment. You can't really love when you're detached. You can't preserve yourself.
SPEAKER_02That's that's that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Detachment. Yeah. It's almost like a self-way of medicating away from having to deal with the pain and sure.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that was how that's how I survived. Right? But my heart wasn't living. You know, emotionally, not knowing how to identify what I was feeling in real time or even how to communicate it. Right? True, yeah. Um, but I did know how not to cause harm at this point, you know, which I'm grateful for. Yeah. Things that I like there are some truths that are self-evident without ever knowing Jesus, just based on humanity. You know, and so there's laws.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. There's laws of thermodynamics. There's yeah, there's laws God put in place. Which all reveal God, for sure.
SPEAKER_01For sure. And so in the you know, in my twenties, I spent a couple years. Wasn't about Jesus, it wasn't whether Jesus existed or not. This guy revealed himself to me. It was easy to believe. Is the information that I have about you, Jesus, on this earth reliable? Because here you're revealing yourself to me, and I can't do anything about that. Now I'm either crazy and you speak, you tell me to get to know who you are. How am I supposed to get to know who you are? And so I start to pursue is the Bible historically accurate? That's a piece of history. It is. Right? Yeah, man. Yeah, but you can't tell you cannot, you can't not hammer that into anyone. That stuff has to be revealed, right? And so, like, the Bible is the Bible historically accurate. Is Jesus a historical figure? You know, uh, I wasn't raised into going to church, so nobody told me any of this stuff. And yet the Christians that I knew of were biblically illiterate, and so they were historically illiterate. And so they had no information. You know, and so my pursuit became historians, Tertullian, Josephus, Justin Martyr, Flavius, Tacticus, you know, Roman historians, Jewish historians, right? Antiquity of the Jews, reading things that would point to whether or not Jesus is not only an accurate figure, but the things that were written about him in the New Testament were they accurate? Come to find out there's 25,000 manuscripts of the New Testament, more than any other book of antiquity. This stuff like it blew my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Because I like philosophy, Plato, Aristotle. Loved it. Now I'm like wrestling, like, holy smokes. I'm eating the Bible at this point. Love it. I mean the Bible, and I get to like, well, where the heck is the church? This church is described here. I can't find it. And I couldn't find it through the lens of a 20-year-old, 21-year-old, 22-year-old, 23-year-old. But I found something. I found some some things there that I'd be like, dang, like, Jesus, like, you're like you you have an army of cheek turners. So you speak about us that way, right? To not please the one, to not be no, do not pursue civilian pursuits, but to aim to please the one who has enlisted you, right? So it's like, what? So we're like an army, but we're like an army of cheek turners. But where are they? Right? Where's this army of love that you talk about in this in the in the word?
SPEAKER_02What do you mean by the uh cheek turn? Give me a little more information on that. Army of cheek turners. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um what's that look like? Huh? It looks like it looks like Abraham taking Isaac and being in agreement to go up the mountain, and Isaac carrying the bundle of wood and laying it down and laying on the bundle of wood and saying yes to his dad. That's what it looks like. It looks like um to live my life as a living sacrifice, meaning do not pay evil for evil. It looks like wouldn't you rather just be wronged than trying to prove being right? It looks like there's a difference between being right and righteous and not fighting to be right, but fight to be righteous. You know, that's pretty radical what you're saying, right? No, it's not. Tell me why. Because that's who we're that's who we are. If it's radical, that means that it's a it's as radical as only two people entering into the promised land and saying we can fight them. That's as radical as it is. But the 600,000 who was with them, they were saved. It's not that radical.
SPEAKER_02They knew the Lord, they saw him. Well, for the average person that might be listening to our podcast today, is what I'm saying is it's a you know, it's a radical statement that you're saying there. That that, you know, think about it. You're we're talking about the church, we're talking about Christians, or are we talking about now are we talking about real disciples? Because there's a big difference.
SPEAKER_01No, there isn't. Go tell me how. It's impossible to call yourself a Christian without being a disciple. So there is no difference. The difference is are you actually a disciple? You cannot be my disciple unless you pick up your cross. Come on. That's true. You cannot be my disciple unless you're willing to eat of my flesh and drink of my blood. Right? So like nah. That's the thing I was talking talking about. Where are they? Where is this thing? Oh, we are the bride of Christ. No, we're not. We're the concubines of Christ. Where's the oneness? There's no oneness. Every church is attacking each other. Literally, like, where's the oneness? It's there in spirit. Couldn't find it, couldn't find the thing. And like, I tried. I went to all types of church. I didn't even know. I didn't even know. That's the craziest part. I had no idea that there was like all these different. I thought it was all the same. Yeah. I thought every church was the same. And my con like my mind is so small. At the time, it's like, okay, I'm gonna go to, you know, I went to like a Presbyterian church, Pentecostal church, I went to Jehovah's Witness Church, I went to Mormon church, I went to uh non-denominational churches, which are really almost like Pentecostal churches. Uh there's like I went to all types of churches. Yeah. Right? Okay. And I did find people who loved. But I'm not sure that the Baptists love the Pentecostals.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm gonna tell you something. You might be right there. You might be 100% right. Not that we're beating up on the Baptists, but you know, there there's an old saying we used to say it's fun to be mental, Baptist church. You know, it's fun to be mental. That's wild. That's a whole nother type of Baptist. But but I you see, that's in my testimony. I'm not trying to jump into your story, but um Jesus, um, and it's so nice to be able to call you Jesus. I love it. Um I came to Jesus because he drew me to him first. That's how it worked. But he used the conduit of a young man like my age to bring me into a church. Awesome. To hear the good news, the gospel, because I didn't realize I was lost. Like I knew I did bad things, but I didn't know I was lost until I heard the message. And then I was like, wait a minute here. Hold on a second. Uh yeah, I've broken the Ten Commandments. Well, I'm guilty of the law. I'm guilty. I broke it. So out of that came my transformation. It took time, though. I was like, I don't know if I need that. You know, I'm I'm good. But then uh went to a winter retreat, and this evangelist, Jamie Regal, got up there and spoke, and he was a little bit of humor. Then he cut you a little bit of humor and cut you. He was a really good speaker, kind of like you know what I'm hearing here today. And I just felt the Holy Spirit, I felt the Lord saying, You want a relationship with me? And I didn't know what to do. I just saw everybody else going forward. So I'm like, I'm gonna go forward with the crowd, right? Yeah. So I went forward, and that's when I got on my knees at 13 years old. And I said, Lord, I want you in my life. I want to be a part of this. I I gave him everything. I went home to my Catholic family. Yeah. And I said, Hey, I got saved. That's the term I understood. And my dad said, That's great, out of respect to my dad, because I've said this before, but he's like, No, great. Can you take out the trash and get going? We got school tomorrow. And you know, I'm like, wow, I just had this life changing experience with the with God. I met Jesus and I'm trying to share it. So I get what you're saying, getting into like the different churches, but it God did use that for me in my life. And I know you're not saying, but you do see though in the Baptist churches and some of the other churches that there's not a love for each other denominationally. There's this wall of theology and all this other stuff they put there. Instead of uniting, it's dividing.
SPEAKER_01Well I wasn't excluding the Baptist church. I was just I'm just saying in one to the other. Correct. You know, like all churches. As if there is more than one. Correct. Is what I'm saying. Yeah, I gotcha.
SPEAKER_02No, but I'm just telling you that part. I didn't want to Yeah, no. Yeah. I'm not saying you're picking on one, but it's a good example, though. No, it's a good example of what you're setting because it it's not just the Baptists, not just the Catholics, not that. But you're looking at where's that unity of the body of Christ, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I had nothing to I had nothing to champion. That's the craziest part. And so if you know, being if from my understanding, sure, you know, uh we like a pl we like we like our last names. Right? I'm a ex. This is what it means to be ex. And like sometimes families have these traditions, and I am a whatever denomination, I'm a Presbyterian. This is what it means to be a Presbyterian. Let me tell you why we're right. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And like people will fight for being right more than they would fight for being righteous. Right? And so like seek first the kingdom of God and be right? Nah. Seek first the kingdom of God and be right. And his righteousness. His righteousness, yeah. And so what does his righteousness look like? What is his kingdom? And so I'm for me, at you know, I'm at this age, I'm reading, I'm s this 20 years ago, like I'm about to be 41. So 20 years ago, I'm like in pursuit of like what? Six chapters in, seek first the kingdom and his righteousness. Six chapters in to the Matthew, to like Jesus. Seek first the kingdom and his righteousness. Okay, what is this? What's this look like? What's this kingdom? Yeah. You know? Well. That's right. Can't stand. I cannot stand. Yeah. Oh, dang, the kingdom of God has been divided. Interesting. So I find myself in a certain time in history. I'm born into a certain time in history where the church used to be one, now the church is not one. And so, in fact, anyone can go and start a church in the United States. It's very easy. Yeah. It like costs you like 500 bucks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you can ordain yourself and ordain anybody you want and get a tax benefit. There's no passing on, there's no laying of hands. Yeah. There's no elders are your best uh businessmen. Yeah. That's what an elder is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I see a lot of that too in my experience over the years. Um and I want to preference, it's not every church that's doing this. There are some still I've visited, be honest with you, where I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh, they exist.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they exist. But the gap of that is far and few between. Oh, totally. Yeah. And there's churches like uh my buddy just had to go through this whole ordination, and it was like laying on the hands, too. It was it was a process. It was beautiful. But it was he was licensed, but he goes, I don't want to just be licensed. He goes, I want to go through the entire ordination process. And I thought, that's beautiful, man. That's yeah, that's what the that's what it looks like in scripture, you know? These men but but it was simpler. I don't think they gave him a little license paper back when they brought on Matthias and those guys after none of that. No, but it was raw, right? It was these are men who were out in the action in the field. Tell me about that. Because you you you got through this segment of going through philosophy, trying to find the Lord in in that, and then uh examining the church and and looking at where's this turn the other cheek crowd. And you know, totally. And this is the context of Naples, Florida, though. Yeah. Well, that's fine. That's different. I mean, Naples is the That's all I understood. Yeah. Yeah. From from coming from where you were in that poverty level to people with last names and sailboats and squeaky shoes. I get it. But the the story ramps up because God's doing something in all that for you. Oh, for sure. He's doing a lot in this. Yeah. Into where you're being called. Because you you came to Jesus at what time in your life? When did that about 20 years old?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was 20. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And overnight, like in the like literally one night. Boom. Uh not only did I come to Jesus, I never wanted to touch drugs ever again. That's amazing. It's a miracle. Yeah, like like it was immediately. It was I knew. I knew like I didn't need to have a list. Nobody needed to point me to a list of things. I knew immediately I didn't have the words for it. That's why. That's I didn't have the language of what was going on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now I can look back and it's like, oh, there's a call of holiness in that moment, which was like, hey, I want you to be pure. Go home and tell my girlfriend, hey, who lives with me. Yeah. I don't like I have no idea what to tell you other than this is what I experienced and I'm not doing drugs anymore, and we're not gonna have sex. Hey, you want to get married?
SPEAKER_02Like at the same time. This is all at the same time. Yeah, this is wild. This is not it wouldn't be. This is crazy. This is cool. I don't know about cool. No, it's cool because you don't hear too many stories like, hey, the Lord wants me to live holy, wants me to give up drugs, and we can't have sex anymore. But hey, let's get married all in the same sense. I don't know. I mean, that's pretty much how it happened.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it happened pretty quickly. It's amazing. Uh yeah. Yes, a lot of a lot of mistakes in the process. But it's all right. There was something going on in the cross. And uh in the in the pursuit of that, I met a lot of people, man. I met a lot of you know, people who were in pursuit of Jesus authentically. I met a lot of people who had incredible stories of transformation. And I met a lot of people who were raised in the church and had never been transformed. Um, like almost as if they had no testimony, as if they can be born into Christianity from childbirth.
SPEAKER_02Right? It's like I think there's a conversation in the uh Book of John there with Nicodemus, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, I I I think it was even John who John the Baptist says, Do not pr do not presume to say you have Abraham as your father. That's right. Right? It's like, hey, by the way, just because you're born of that, yeah. It's not uh the same thing here. Right. And so they're like, this is an individual thing. So I met all types of people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I thought everyone had this revelation of Jesus. I really authentically thought, like, hey, now tell me how Jesus talked to you. Yeah, you know, yeah, and like I come to find out that that isn't necessarily the case. But on the people who are obeying Jesus that I've come to know, they're all hearing Jesus. There you go. Because my sheep hear my voice. You can read about him. You can know all his words. But unless you're hearing him, those words are are only gonna condemn you. So true. The conviction to follow those words, that comes with mercy and grace.
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SPEAKER_01A different and not like a different type of grace. Yeah. A grace that is bestowed on you to follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So you're finding out as you're growing in the Lord, as He's refining you in your faith, He's journeying you. Yeah. That not everybody has the same experience. How did that how did that how did God use that into where you are today and what you're doing today, in a sense? Because we're going to get into the moment where there's this pivotal shift for you, I'm sure, where you know the Lord is calling you. We know He's calling you to be a son, because you're you're you're learning in that place right now about sonship. But where this is going to shift here.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think the shift the the shift happened immediately. The first the first two months into like the thing of like, I'm a I'm I wouldn't call myself a Christian at the time, but like two months into this thing about Jesus, I call I go knock on my parents' house, my mom opens up and says, I gotta tell you something. And my mom said, like, she knew. My mom knew. She was like, look, whatever it is, but whatever, whatever's happening right now, I want that. And like she knew. Less than a month later, I got to baptize my mom. Wow. So I'm the first Christian in my family. Twenty years later, I can tell you that they're all Christians. Yeah. My siblings, my like my nieces and nephews. Um, my uncles, my aunts. Like, it's spread. It spread throughout my entire family. I've got to watch my father come to know Jesus, right? To become a new man. The guy who sexually abused me led him to Christ. Like, this is insane stuff, right? We're talking about forgiveness.
SPEAKER_02This is forgiveness, bro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is good. It's like the this dude's my brother. The dude who sexually abused me in Christ is my like he's my brother now. Right? Was there a lot of healing around that for you guys? For you? For me, I'm still healing. We're not friends.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm just asking. I'm just asking. Yeah, yeah. We're not like, yeah. He don't come over, eat with me, and hang out with my kids. We're not friends. Yeah. But I know he's my brother. Right? And uh, but I'm very human, you know. And I so we could we could leave that there, but yeah, you know, the healing is a journey of a lifetime. Forgiveness is a journey of a lifetime. It comes in stages.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, you whatever whatever issues you had with your dad, have a kid, see if they won't pop up again. That's the truth. I got four. Kids 14, 15 years old, see if they don't pop up again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's you're you're speaking truth right there, man. That is absolutely it does. It pops up. It sure does. Some level. Some some part of you, some part of uh your father's, you know, information to you, it's it it's biblical. It happens, it's it's learned through. Uh it's it's taught by them observing us and our stuff. And we talk about stuff a lot. We talk about lie-based emotional stuff, lie-based pain. Um, and there's truth-based pain, you know, it's true. And there's sadness. That's true sadness. And then there's sadness that is wrapped around a lie to we use to kind of you know keep something at bay so we don't have to feel that or ex or have to deal with it or own it. And um, so I see you, Jesus, in a place of owning a lot of stuff, it seems like now. You're owning what God is doing inside your heart. You're you're you're processing as you're going. So you're seeing miracles happen.
SPEAKER_01For sure. Miracles, uh demons, you know, cast out of people. Yeah. Um people filled with the Spirit of God. Yeah. Life-changing, transformational stuff that cannot be learned by reading. So you got out of the head knowledge.
SPEAKER_02Well, I love learning. Of course. I'm a learner. Yeah, I I I understand that. That's a very given here, man. I know that. But but you're God's taking you now in an experiential truth, too. Oh, yeah. A lot of experiential truth. And people get a little nervous about experiential stuff in the churches, especially because they're like, okay, show me exactly in the word of God that happened that you just experienced. And you're like, well, there's not a specific passage, but there's a principle. And maybe there is. And maybe there is.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like, I I mean, my mind was there's multiple times Jesus just blows my mind, but yeah. One of them is that Jesus came to an illiterate people group. Less than three percent of the known world can read. And when we start reading about, you know, in the old testament where he says, Seek me with all your heart and you surely define me. It's not reading. I can tell you that for sure. Yeah. It's good, man. Right. What reading, bro. Seek me with all your heart. Yeah. It's very interesting language, you know. Seek first. Yeah. That goes back to your seeking first. Right? Yeah. And so I love when you know they you know Jesus is asked, What's the greatest command? And everybody messes it up. We still mess it up today. What's the greatest command? What's the greatest command?
SPEAKER_02Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Everything. Wrong. Tell me.
SPEAKER_01Hear, O Israel. That's a command. The Lord your God is one. You should love the Lord your God. But hear, O Israel. O Israel. How can you love anything if you can't hear him? Hear. Hear. My sheep hear my voice. That's what Jesus is quoting. Hear. I think even John says, How can you love God if you don't love the who you don't see, if you don't love the person who you do see? That's why everybody says, Who's my neighbor? Surely, surely my neighbor's not Mexico. Surely my neighbor's not Venezuela. Surely my neighbor is not Cuba. Surely my neighbor is not Saudi Arabia. Surely my neighbor's not Gaza. Surely my neighbor's not Pakistan. Surely it must not be Russia. Who's my neighbor? And yet we're Christians. Yeah. That's a good point. Very good point. Well said. Well said. Man, we have no idea what oneness looks like, and we surely are not an army of cheek turners. We're warmongering. And call ourselves Christians.
SPEAKER_02So in all this, Jesus, the Lord placed on your heart permission. No.
SPEAKER_01Tell me about that. No, he placed on my heart obedience. Right? Not mission. Mission is easy. Mission you can teach anybody to go feed a homeless person and volunteer and sign up. Obedience happens when the door is closed. Obedience happens in how you talk to your children. Obedience happens in how you respond to your wife. Obedience happens when you wake up and it's the first thing you do on the toilet on your phone. Obedience happens dude. Obedience? Yeah, man. Mission. Anyone can do mission. You can literally get a job for it. You can go to school for that. You can get a degree in it. You can get $100,000 for it. Yeah. But obedience? You don't get paid for that. That reward is in heaven. It's not clapped for. You know? Nobody sees it. That's what he put on my heart is man. He who has my commands and keeps them, it is me who loves me. It is them who love me, is what he says. He who has my commands and keeps them, it is them who loves me. That's the stuff that starts blowing my mind. Oh Jesus, what is your command? Oh, hear me. Hear me. Hear me that you may learn how to love me. So that you may learn how to love others. Oh man, but Mary, she's not doing anything. Oh Martha, Martha. Mary's chosen the better part. To sit at my feet to hear me.
SPEAKER_02It's a place of being. Yeah. It's a total place of being, total place of surrender, total place of abiding. I know we use these words, they're fancy, but fancy words. Fancy words. But it is what theological terms. Theological terms. And God works through all that too as well, but here. Here is so important. Someone listening right now. How would I know if there's a way to even tell someone how to hear? Like you know what I'm saying? Like there is. Tell me. Tell me about it then.
SPEAKER_01Be quiet. Stop talking in your prayers. Stop telling God all the things you need for a while. Just say, here I am. Hanay. You ever heard that word? Hanaini. Haney, yeah. Yeah, it's yeah. It's what um is what uh the priest told Samuel, Eli. Right? Yeah. Hanaini. Here I am. That's good. Here I am. Here I am. Um if that can be the only words that we say to the Lord, and the rest is hearing, my goodness, he knows everything we need. But do we know everything he has to say to us? And so that is a practice that is missing. We're a fast less people. We're listen less people. It's not that God isn't speaking, we have a listening problem. Yeah. Right? So like our current culture has a podcast on everything, has a book on everything, has a seminar on everything, has a masterclass on everything. Yeah. And it's permanent in the in the in the Christian sector. Has its own music, has its own everything. Right? But listening, don't hear much about listening. There's a whole lot out there to hear, you know.
SPEAKER_02How would you how would you encourage people to listen then? What would you I mean you say just stop, you just say stop, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, Jesus had a really interesting practice. He sabbathed. Whoa. Whoa. He rested. For restless people. Yeah. Yeah, man. We're scrollers. We're TV addicts. Dopamine. Oh, it's all bad. Yeah. Where's the wilderness? Where's the time? Like literally, where is the time that people go into the wilderness and not even bring a Bible? Don't even bring a Bible.
SPEAKER_02I'll tell you what, when I get out of here of Florida and I get to go up north to the mountains.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, we have a little bit of property up north that we were blessed with. Well, thank you for my father-in-law and his ability to be able to pull some things together for all of us. But we go up there, and um I know what you're saying. I feel when I take my when I take the word of God and I just go out into that place, it's quiet. All I hear is the wind. That's a lot to hear. It's a lot to hear. It gets really quiet and it feels good though to me. It feels it's just it's where I feel like I hear Papa so well. I hear dad so well in his voice. And I can get that same effect when I withdraw from this for a while. For sure. Into my closet, as you were saying a minute ago. For sure. But there is something so special, like you said, getting out. To me, it's getting out in the wilderness, you know.
SPEAKER_01But that stuff's not being taught. Yeah, it's not. So it's only recent. So there used to be a time period in all humanity, and it still exists in different countries. They're called rites of passages. And so, like in indigenous cultures, you would take your son. Rites of passages, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Learning how go learn how to hunt that animal. You're gonna eat that. It's gonna take you a couple weeks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's like what the Greeks did and and the Spartans and well, we all have done that. We all have done that, yeah. Yeah. I've taken my kids out, you know, uh rabbits.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Take a rabbit down, teach him what how to to prepare one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So those are things that I think as men and you know those rites of passages. But you're right, we don't do that. It's gone.
SPEAKER_01Totally. We just go to publics, right? And so like, go go kill an animal, see if you don't hear God. That's true. Draining out that blood. Go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know? Yeah. And it's like there's so much you know that God speaks through nature. Yeah. All of creation is crying out for the manifestation of the sons of God.
SPEAKER_02You know, one thing that we see a lot of too, and you know, and I was just talking through a lot of this, but depression in people. Jesus had an answer for that. He said, Go out and look at the birds. Totally. Didn't he?
SPEAKER_01Like Latinos have an answer for that too. What's that? What are you complaining about? You're in America, bro. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, we got too much. That might be the problem. Listen, America's got way too weak. The land of the lazy. The land of the Yeah, you could say it, man. I mean, it is. No, it's okay. Um, it's it's a good point that you're making. Um depression. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I just can't. I cannot imagine. My parents work two jobs, right? Yeah. And like coming here working $4 an hour, making French fries and washing dishes. Yeah. When when do you have time for depression? I think maybe get some of these kids to go experience real life. You know, you I think depression happens because you're so self-centered. Go be centered on other people. It will quickly turn your life into joy serving someone else. But to hear to like all of this, every the whole thing has been a journey of hearing. Yeah. And he's been speaking, like I said, way before I was born. Thankfully, he's continuing to tune my hearing and posturing my heart, right? It's like, oh, my heart is like a river. I'm gonna turn it to where I want it to go. Surely he will do it. And in that part, he said, Oh, he turned you to missions, called you to missions. Man, I there's a um Spurgeon says this. Every every Christian is a missionary or an imposter. You know, I I like I like reading. What can I say? No, it's for all the impostors. Yeah, we're all Christians. Every Christian is a missionary or an imposter. Yeah. So, okay, you know, the Christian. When does he call you call me or call you into missions? Uh um, when I became a follower of Jesus, because my sheep hear my voice and they follow me. That's right. And then he says, Go and make disciples and baptize them and teach them to obey everything I commanded. Behold, I'm with you today and age. By the way, it is he who has my commands and keeps them. It is he who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my father. I and the father are one, praying that you might be one, not only you, but those who will believe in me on account of you. What?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01The whole game. Yeah. The whole game is It's all right there. Oh, Jesus, like from the moment I give my life to you, I'm not gonna have whatever I want anymore. You're a dead man walking. Which means we have nothing to lose. That's right. Which means there's no fear, right? It's like, oh, where do you go? Pakistan. People are like, oh, that must be you're still fearing. You're still fearing, aren't you? Right? We have one candle of life to burn. Why are we not burning it in the darkest place possible? I want Jesus' hand. That's the really that's the only answer I can think of. Yeah. I want Jesus' hand and my comfort, my house, my car, my bank account, my security, my retirement, my success. That's hard truth, bro. Oh, it's not mine. I I honestly want to die. And so like I'm good.
SPEAKER_02Like I don't mean that like in a No you're saying that like die to self. You just want to be consumed with his with Papa's heart, what he wants from you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like a vessel. Right? And so like whether he chooses to crush me into dust or whether he cho whatever he chooses, you know, and so like what better life? It's the most adventurous life. Adventurous. Like I I really have no worries about money. Zero. That's good. You know, about tomorrow, about where I'm gonna lay my head, about where he's gonna send me, about whether I'm gonna end up in jail. None of it matters. Right? Because like I think Job 42.2, I know that Job 42.2 says this. This is Job's response. Yep. I know that no plan of yours can be thwarted, which means God is at work in every little thing. So nothing can be thwarted. That is his plan. And everything works out to for good for those who love him on a card called according to his purpose, meaning we can be the greatest risk takers ever for the gospel. Yeah, man. Absolutely. Because no one can take our lives. Because he's a life taker. And if we really believe that, the whole world can know Jesus. Until we believe that, we'll we'll just keep working our jobs.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for sharing. You're highly complex yet. Yeah, very but yet what I'm saying to you is like it's simple. You took the complex and made it so simple today.
SPEAKER_01Here I once heard that it's so simple you'd have to get a degree and get hired to teach it not to be simple. That's it's good.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if it's good, but it's something. It's something, but I like it. I like it. I like what you're saying. It's you know, it's also having to unlearn what you've learned in your culture too. And and the key that I heard from today was hear. Oh yeah. What's my mission? Obedience. Oh yeah. Being his son is the first and most Lord, listening. Yeah. Loving. Yeah. And out of that, you want me to go down the street, knock on the door, I'll go do it, Lord. Whatever. You want me to sit in my backyard and look at birds for the day? I'll do that. That's right. If you want me to come over and do a podcast with Jason on a three doves, let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah. Because he's good. He's good, yeah. And he's worth it. Because we're worth it for him. For sure. And he loved us first. Yeah. For sure. Thanks for being on our podcast today, Jesus. Thanks for having me. Yeah. God bless you, man. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01Me too.
SPEAKER_02What stands out is this. This life with God isn't complicated, but it requires everything. It's not about titles, religion, or performance. It's about hearing him, loving him, obeying him, and walking it out daily. If you're listening right now, take a moment, stop the noise, get quiet, and simply say, here I am. Then listen. Because the difference between knowing about God and truly walking with him is obedience. Thanks for tuning into the Three Doves Podcast, and as always, God bless.